1. Why was the Can the Dead by Harmed paper so hard for you? I would have guessed that Paper #2 on your values would have been more difficult.
2. One of your classmates wrote about harm to the dead:
"To me, the dead’s soul cannot be physically harmed, but it can be harmed in a sense. People can talk negatively about a deceased person, bashing what kind of person they were, their actions, and how they lived their life. To this day, people who may have died hundreds of years ago are talked about, both positively and negatively. People such as Hitler, who murdered millions of people is talked about negatively, which is a good thing because he does not deserve to be talked about in a positive light. This is harming the dead to me, he is still being talked about in a bad way, though he deserves it in my opinion[CS1] . This is harming the person even though they are no longer with [us]. It is not physical but it is still harm, it is harm of their reputation and of their character.
To which I responded with a series of questions, of which you could pick any to respond :
[CS1]That
raises an interesting question: if we disparage Hitler for what he willingly
did, would he perceive it has harm? Is there such a thing as objective
harm? I don’t think he would care that
we think he was a murdering monster, because he thought he was right. Right?
Do you think that after we die, we realize our
sins? Do you think Hitler realized? If there is a Hell, wouldn’t Hitler be
there? Could our negative judgment
against him even register if he is in Hell?
(aren’t these questions super interesting?!?!)
3. re: Spring Grove Cemetery.
Why do we spend so much time, money, and effort on the dead? They are dead. Do we believe that they can appreciate what we've done for them? Or is it not really about the dead, but about the living survivors?
4.Re: Kant
Why do we spend so much time, money, and effort on the dead? They are dead. Do we believe that they can appreciate what we've done for them? Or is it not really about the dead, but about the living survivors?
4.Re: Kant
Don't you think he's right that we should be good for the sake of being good, rather than in order to be rewarded?
4. re: Clergy, religion, God, etc.
a) why do you believe in God, religion, if there is no proof? Is it because, as Kierkegaard says, you just choose to believe? You take that leap of faith? Is it because your life is better if you believe? Is it just a Pascal's wager? Is belief in another world and/or God/higher power part of human nature?
b) Remember that Capt Peters said that she had met so many different kinds of people and she couldn't reason out why her religion was any better than any one else's, so she quit believing? (It seems that now she is looking to go back to something...) How do you maintain your beliefs in the face of other incompatible beliefs? Does it turn on where the disagreement is? For example, I'm perfectly willing (eager even) to be in community with folks who hold very different beliefs about the origin of the world and the afterlife as long as it doesn't involve forcing me to accept their doctrine. Or as long as it doesn't involve what I would consider impinging on women's rights to control their own bodies and fertility, to education, to work, to own property, etc.
#3. I believe that we spend so much time, money and effort on the dead so we can make ourselves feel more comfortable knowing the deceased person is in peace. I believe that when a person dies, he/she no longer cares what others have done or will do for him/her. The person who just passed away does not care what kind of flowers you put in his/her casket, what type of pillow he/she is laying on, or how many pictures you hung up at the layout. The deceased person is too busy praising God when getting to heaven. Making a funeral and layout beautiful and peaceful is only to help the loved ones grief easier.
ReplyDeleteI agree that the whole point of flowers and a beautiful layout is to make the loved ones who are alive grieve easier. I know that death is difficult a process to go through and sometimes little things, such as flowers can help the living feel better even though the deceased cannot know what happens once they are dead.
DeleteHi Ceanna, I agree with you that these funerals seem to be more for us than for the deceased. It's always been a way of saying goodbye and letting go for those of us who are struggling with that person's death. When my father died back in 1993, it was probably the most difficult time of my life. I hadn't seen him in a while and it was very sudden. He was only 45 years old and this was the hardest part for me personally. It was a traditional Jewish funeral and even though it was eloquently done, it didn't bring me comfort.
DeleteI feel that having these nice arrangements for our deceased helps with our grieving process. It makes us feel as if they are in a better place now and that we have shown our last respects to them by honoring their life and what they accomplished in this life. Of course the dead does not care what type of flowers or arrangements are placed around them...they are busy meeting everyone again in Heaven. As we can see, it does get expensive when our loved ones dye but I still think it is appropriate to honor them and their life by providing a casket, flowers, picture boards, etc.
Delete#1/ #2 The Can the Dead be Harmed paper was difficult because there are so many ways that the dead can be considered to be harmed. Two ways that the dead can be harmed is physical harm and verbal harm. If the dead is physically harmed, their body can be damaged in different ways. The organs can be taken out of the body or something can happen to the body that would go against the wishes if the individual before they died. If the body is verbally harmed, it means that even though the person is dead there are people in the living world who still speak ill of their character, whether they deserve it or not.
ReplyDeleteContinuing on with the verbal harm, many people in the world still talk about what Hitler did and how bad of a person her was. I think at the time Hitler was doing what he thought was morally right in his mind and did not think that he was doing something that was horrible. I understand that we verbally harm Hitler because we need to make sure that something like what he did will not happen again in the future. If we keep talking about something that was horrible, we have a better chance of fixing a mistake before it turns into something bigger. I am not sure if Hitler realized his sins before he died, because in his mind he may not have thought of them as morally wrong. With all the negative judgments I don't believe that it could reach Hitler in the after life and if it did, I don't think he would care what people have to say about him. If he registered it, I believe that he would be happy that people are still talking about the one major thing he did in his life, even if it was bad for the world.
Megan, I completely agree with you about the second question. I do not think Hitler realized his sins once he died because I think Hitler believed what he was doing was right. I do not think Hitler realized his actions were extremely sinful, even though we all know it was. You bring up a good point with the verbal harm. Many people talk about how horrible of a human being Hitler was and how awful his actions were, but I do not think this is harmful to him now that he is dead.
DeleteI don’t think Hitler truly understood what he was doing was a bad thing. Think about all of his followers, do you really think he had millions of people following him because they were born to be evil and saw Hitler and thought, “Wow! Finally someone bad! Let’s follow him and be evil too!” I think these people legitimately thought they were doing something they were supposed to do and expected to do. Stanley Milgram, the guy who conducted an experiment focusing on the conflict between obedience to authority and personal conscience. He found that ordinary people are likely to follow orders given by an authority figure even to the extent of killing an innocent human being. He said obedience to authority is ingrained in us all from the way we are brought up and that people tend to obey orders from other people if they recognize their authority as morally right and / or legally based. This response to legitimate authority is learned in a variety of situations, for example in the family, school and workplace.
DeleteHey everyone! To answer on Questions 1/2, the last paper we did regarding whether the dead can be harmed or not was actually not that hard for me personally. This could be due to my beliefs, however, I do believe that in order for the dead to be harmed in a physical way, I would think that there has to be some sort of consciousness of the harm being done. When our bodies are deceased, I don't see that as being possible. There are ways to harm the dead with regards to talking about them verbally, but if the soul leaves the body after death I don't see how that really matters to that soul.Could they respond or protest? Hmmm, probably not.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Melissa, the paper was not too hard for me either because my beliefs were firm in this area. However, our beliefs are different! I believe that the dead can be harmed if they enter into eternal life in Hell. I believe that those in Heaven find complete happiness and bliss and those in Hell are harmed forever.
DeleteThe paper wasn't hard for me to write either, Melissa, but like Maggie, I had a different opinion. Instead of focusing more on the spiritual side, I thought of it more as bodily harm to a corpse. I think that a dead body can be harmed because the body still has dignity. I'm Catholic and I believe that when Jesus comes again, our bodies will reunite with our souls. Therefore, bodies shouldn't be harmed in the meantime.
DeleteFor the paper we wrote, I agreed with both the deprivation theory and the epicurean argument. Although a person lacks sensation after they are dead, I still believe that the body itself can be harmed and misused after death. For instance, say someone was murdered and the murderer decided to misuse the dead corpse, i.e., by dismantling the body. The dead person will not feel any of this torment, but it is harming the dignity of the corpse.
DeleteI agree with you, Melissa. I don’t think the soul of the deceased care very much about what happens to their former earthly vehicle called a body. But I also commented on the same thing Katie mentions about the physical harm to the corpse. We can physically harm or affect the dead body but we can’t do much harm to the person who once accompanied that body.
DeleteI think Kant is completely right. We should do good things for the sake of doing good, instead of expecting some kind of reward. But do we do that? Most times not. I know that I, personally, do good things to make myself feel good. Is that a reward? I like to do good things for other people because it makes me and the other person happy and it shows me that life is about giving and being good to one another. Sometimes, I will admit, I do good things for other people to see. I want them to know that I am a good person and I do have a big heart and sometimes you do want recognition for the good things you do, which I don't think is wrong. However, it is very important to be humble about the good things you do and like Kant says, just do it to do it.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you Maggie about doing good things because it makes you and another person happy. I am not one to do good things to be recognized, because I don't need the praise to know that the little things I do help others. I just like to do small helpful deeds for other people such as helping with homework, doing laundry, and even little favors that they mention in passing. but never remember later on. I think that the reward for me isn't all about the recognition but the fact that I did something to make someone happy and hopefully they will pass it on and do something nice for someone else without needed to be recognized and rewarded.
Delete3) I think the memorials, trees, window decals, and flowers are for the people grieving, but this is where I have a problem. When people say "in lieu of flowers, donate to this cause," I feel awkward not bringing or sending flowers, I guess because it's just tradition. But if you do bring flowers, I feel awkward because I'm not sure if I really should have donated the money spent on them to the charity. It's a tough question because of course I don't care if there are flowers at my own funeral, but I would be offended if no one brings any to my mother's funeral. I'm not worried about offending the person who died by not bringing flowers, I'm sure they want the money to go to good use too; I'm worried that I'll offend their loved ones, which isn't something I want to do especially since they're going through this time of loss. So I guess the solution is to do both: buy flowers and donate... but that can be expensive. This is really something I want people's opinions on: what's the answer to this problem?
ReplyDeleteIn response to 1 & 3, the paper about whether the dead can be harmed was difficult in a sense because I believed both opinions and it got me thinking. Writing about my values was not as difficult because I feel as if I have my head on straight and I know where I come from and what values are important to me.
ReplyDeleteWhile at Spring Grove Cemetery, I was blowed away by the massive display of burial sites. The wealthier families had large mosques and extravagant designs and symbols on their mosques. I feel that is it unnecessary to put that much detail into the burial site and that what we should spend our money on is the funeral itself and the celebration of life. I am sure our loved ones appreciate what we do for them but I also think about them looking down on us and wondering why we are wasting our money on these valuable monuments and celebrations when our loved ones are already in Heaven enjoying the party up there. We tend to have expensive and nicely organized funerals/celebrations for the family who has lost their loved one.
I agree with knowing our own values and beliefs is easy, but sometimes it can be difficult to support why we believe in what we do. I have seen miracles performed in my church, but it can be hard to explain how a miracle happened if a person wasn't their to witness it or they don't have the same beliefs. My values are heavily based on my morals, which come from personal life experiences and my religious views. I can see how it could be difficult for someone else to view the world exactly as i do.
DeleteI agree that our own values and beliefs are easy to pick out. However, when it comes to explaining why we believe what we do, it is often difficult. We learn so much from our own personal experiences and the stories we hear from others. My morals come from my family and what I've learned from my parents and my brothers. We form our own personal values and beliefs based off of our morals and these are easy to explain in our own minds. It's hard to pick a part our beliefs and explain it to others because they haven't lived the life we have. They haven't experienced the things we have so it's hard for people to understand exactly why we believe what we have come to believe.
Delete#1- I did not find the harming of the dead paper to be very difficult. Actually, I think it was the paper I have enjoyed writing the most. I think some people might have struggled with because they could have found themselves questioning their beliefs. I think it was a bit easier for me because I do not have a strong religious background, so I could understand both sides of the question.
ReplyDelete#3- I believe that all of the time and money spent on decorating graves and memorials for our dead loved ones is a bit over the top. I believe that people do this more for the living survivors than for the dead themselves. I think doing this helps the living survivors grieve. I think keeping graves nice makes the living survivors feel better about the lose of their loved one.
3. The money spent on the dead is definitely for the living. There is a body decomposing under all that expensive concrete and effort so why is that something any deceased person or spirit appreciate that? Maybe as a human that kind of stuff can be appreciated, but I would think that once someone dies and the soul is released the soul would be so in tune with everything in a sense that they would see how ridiculous this all is. I mostly feel this way because it’s hard to imagine a conceded materialistic spiritual entity. Even in regards to an evil entity like a demon I have a hard time imagining them craving objects rather than other innocent souls or just torturing other people. What benefit are earthly things in the afterlife?
ReplyDelete2) I am going to share an unpopular opinion on something... speaking ill of the dead. I believe that when you do not share your true opinion on someone, even in death, you are disrespecting that person. There was a fellow soldier who had died in my unit. This person was a horrible person, HORRIBLE. We all knew it, we all knew no one liked this person. So when it came to this person's name, when it was brought up in passing, and when we (my friends and I, and most people that is) were asked about our opinion of this person, we were brutally honest. We had mourned and were sad for the loss of a fellow soldier, a comrade, yes, but we didn't care for her and we wouldn't lie about it. We didn't insult her, but we talked about why we didn't like this person. So why get sad and speak respectively about someone when they are dead, then go around and speak about how great they were when they are dead. I know people will speak ill of me, and I will be more than grateful because of it, because why would someone insult me in life, but turn around and say words about my death, that they couldn't give me in life. Stay true to your beliefs, even in death. - Christian Shodahl
ReplyDelete3.) I believe we spend so much time and money on the dead, because we want their life to be celebrated in the best way possible. I think i would feel guilty if i didn't go to visit my uncle's grave, and view the beautiful stone my grandparents bought for his grave site. It's respectful to show what kind of person is burried in that plot, and what they meant to their loved one's in life and in death. I believe it's probably more about the surviving friend and family of the deceased, because we want to remember our loved one in the best light possible. They obviously meant a lot to the people around them or we wouldn't even bother finding a proper grave site and spend some of our time visiting that grave site to pay our respects. I believe the deceased look down from Heaven, and appreciate what their family goes through to preserve their memory.
ReplyDelete4.) I believe Kant is correct in believing that we should do good for the sake of being good, and not for an award. In life we should be supporting the people around us and doing what we can to better society. We shouldn't be selfish and expect that everyone will reward us for every kind gesture we present in life. Helping others and bettering the world in the best kind of reward we can get. That is very overused, but it's true. Would you rather receive a candy bar as reward for help an elderly man across the street or would you rather see the end of world hunger, because you helped deliver food supplies to a third world country? It is important to keep our moral in check so we aren't always searching for the next person to reward us for a simple task that should be done without question.
3.) I believe we spend so much time and money on the dead, because we want their life to be celebrated in the best way possible. I think i would feel guilty if i didn't go to visit my uncle's grave, and view the beautiful stone my grandparents bought for his grave site. It's respectful to show what kind of person is burried in that plot, and what they meant to their loved one's in life and in death. I believe it's probably more about the surviving friend and family of the deceased, because we want to remember our loved one in the best light possible. They obviously meant a lot to the people around them or we wouldn't even bother finding a proper grave site and spend some of our time visiting that grave site to pay our respects. I believe the deceased look down from Heaven, and appreciate what their family goes through to preserve their memory.
ReplyDelete4.) I believe Kant is correct in believing that we should do good for the sake of being good, and not for an award. In life we should be supporting the people around us and doing what we can to better society. We shouldn't be selfish and expect that everyone will reward us for every kind gesture we present in life. Helping others and bettering the world in the best kind of reward we can get. That is very overused, but it's true. Would you rather receive a candy bar as reward for help an elderly man across the street or would you rather see the end of world hunger, because you helped deliver food supplies to a third world country? It is important to keep our moral in check so we aren't always searching for the next person to reward us for a simple task that should be done without question.
#2 I agree that talking negatively about the deceased is a way of harming the individual. It is not physical harm but it is harmful to the person they were when they were alive. I think there is such a thing as objective harm. Specifically speaking about Hitler, he may not be so hurt with what is being said about him because that was his motive. He thought he was right in what he was doing. But if it were about someone that wasn’t a mass murderer, they might be hurt by the negative speaking that we may take part in once they are deceased.
ReplyDeleteI think that we realize our sins when we die. I think we are taken through our entire life and we see what mistakes we have made and the effects it has on the people around us. I think Hitler realized the sins he made, but that doesn’t change the fact that he did them. In my opinion, he knew exactly what he was doing and it didn’t affect him. I don’t think our negative judgement can affect a person like Hitler. If there is a Hell, he is certainly there.
#3 I think we spend so much time, money and effort on the dead because we feel that it is a way for us to honor them even after they are gone. I think it does have a lot to do with the living survivors as well. To visit the grave of our loved one and to leave flowers there is a remembrance for the survivors. It can be a tradition for them, to visit every Sunday or every month so that no matter how much time passes, their loved one is never forgotten. Sometimes life gets so crazy and hectic that we forget about the ones that have passed, so it is important to spend the time and put out the effort to not only visit their grave, but visit their favorite place, or eat at their favorite restaurant. To do something in their memory, can mean a lot to the survivors and I believe the loved one appreciates it up in heaven as well.
ReplyDelete#4 I think we definitely should be good for the sake of being good. We should be rewarded silently. The simple fact of knowing that we did good, should be the greatest award that we could ever receive. I feel like society is so caught up in getting rewarded for everything that we do, that we no longer see the real goodness in what we are doing. We should be great and expect nothing in return.